Re:Ball Speed - Throwing Events Discussion

Let's talk ball speed. Does anyone have any great advice for creating ball speed and further more, ways to teach throwers, especially converted discus throwers, to keep the ball out in front of them and be patient as to not pull away from the implement.

I'd say to try to keep the ball in front of you from 0 to 90 and focus on minimizing time in single support. Turn to 90, then step through quickly to quickly get back to double support, trying to speed up the ball on its way down the orbit. I feel that discus throwers try to speed up from 0 to 180 instead of 180 back to 0.

Yes, the majority of the speed should be developed from 180 down to 0. As for having them not drag it, try telling them to keep their eye on the ball...they'll realize that in order to do this and remain balanced, they'll have to have the hammer right out in front of them. Also tell them to push the hammer with the right side of their body.

I must disagree. If you want ball speed it should NOT be obtained from 0 to 180.
The reason for this is because from 90 to right foot touch down (for a right handed thrower) you are in
single support. When you try to accelerate the ball with one foot on the ground bad things happen such as pulling your head, sitting back, or dragging the hammer/weight. You should NEVER try to accelerate the ball in single support. When you are in single support LEAVE THE BALL ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Try this… tell your throwers, or yourself to throw the ball as hard and as far to the left (again for a right handed thrower) as possible. The goal should be to put the ball to 180 before your feet ever move. When this happens the weight is moving you and instead of you moving the weight, because of the fact that the ball is ahead of you. When you come back to double support, hopefully around 270 you should be thinking the same thing, throw the ball as far and as fast to the left as I can!! You will be surprised how much of a difference this makes in your throw. You will be turning faster then ever before.

Also I could not agree more about keeping your eye on the weight/hammer. I tell my kids that every day!!! In fact I tell then to look at the back half of the ball.

I sort of agree with both schools of thought on when to accelerate the ball. I think I mostly agree that that ball should be accelerated from 0 to 180 or in double support. However, I do work with my athletes to not spend too much time in single support. I don't try to have my athletes accelerate in single support, but we do focus on orbit and body posture as to not get pulled out of orbit and make for a long single support.

However, how do other coaches teach and work on the lower body and applying force (push) on the implement. I talk about blocking the hips from the catch until the ball passes zero, and turning the right foot. Any thoughts or other schools of thought?

Jobu, I agree with your points. However, I think you are misunderstanding the first two posters. They are saying accelerate the ball from 180 down to 0, not 0 to 180. What they mean to say is 180 down to 360. You can only gain ball speed while in double support. I tell my athletes to get to their catch possition quickley and push with the entire right side. Also if you are countering the ball appropriately it will pulse through zero faster "SIT LEFT LEG!"

I like to teach to establish the accelearion path from 315 to 45 degrees. Especially in a young thrower they will end up accelerating to 90 degree and the ball will carry them into their first catch. I teach it by starting with the winds when the hands come through 315 accelerate to 45 degrees. Than do the same on the second wind, entry, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd turn. Easiest way I have found to teach the hammer.

Mike, that is pretty much the same school of thought I use. I work on pushing from the catch, along with driving with the right foot, past zero to avoid drag, and to increase the balls angular velocity. I also will work with a more advanced athlete driving with the hips from zero up towards the high point (180) to further increase acceleration and lift. This is easy to see in the Balasz Kiss slow-motion video that has been on youtube.

broom-stick drills worked great for me. it allowed me to better visualize when to move with the ball at 0. i agree with cues such as "use your entire right side" to accellerate in double support. specifically, my coach would tell me to "push" with my right arm from the shoulder. couple that with an effective right foot and you'll get great accelleration...as long as they can keep up with it on their step over.