Re:Discus flight - Help - Throwing Events Discussion

I coach throws at a small HS, and as such generally deal with lots of beginner-level throwers. This year I seem to have more throwers having trouble with the discus flight. I know this always seems to correct itself in time, but I have a couple very talented although rough, young throwers becoming very frustrated with it. We have tried focusing on the following, in no particular order:
palm down, press the thumb down, follow through with the arm, hip pop... but nothing seems to really stick. I'm talking mostly about stand throws here. I can literally watch them bring the discus back and rotate their wrist/hand to 90 degrees and just follow through with their throw keeping their hand in that position. It seems so simple - JUST KEEP YOUR PALM FACING DOWN - but somehow it's not sinking in with these kids.

Any suggestions aside from what I've already tried? We only have 4-5 weeks left in the season, and these kids should definitely make state, but... they are so inconsistent, there's no telling.

Pam

try talking theory with them. to get beginners to learn to trust the disc in their hands, i use the "pale of water" analogy. if you have a pale of water and swing it up over head quickly, the water will not fall out. same goes for the disc. if you keep the disc moving, the force generated will keep it in their hand even if their palm is facing down. to prove it to them, i have them do a silly drill called the figure 8. they hold the disc in their throwing hand as normal and make large sweeping figure-eights with their arm, making sure they face their palm down. if the disc falls out, it's because they aren't going fast enough.

I don't know if it's a faith issue; I think they understand the concept of centripetal force. The "seem" to try the things I'm telling them to do, but it's like they just aren't feeling it or they THINK they are doing it but they aren't. Then they get frustrated, and so do I, as I don't know what else to try.

Pam

I would take time from practice and have them throw straight up in the sky for height and bowl towards a fence. I have a girl who was in the same boat and she is just now getting her release down. Hang in there.

have you taken any video of them so they can see what you see? we study film 3 days a week and i'll show them frame by frame what i'm seeing.

Yes, but yesterday was our first day to view video (of themselves, anyway). I'm a firm believer in watching video, and I'm hoping yesterday's 2-hr video review will help some of them get over some issues. But as for flight... like I said, they know they are doing it, just don't seem to know how to fix it. Time fixes it, but I guess I just want it fixed now! lol I thought maybe there was some new technique or something I just never knew about that would help, was hoping anyway.

We do the bowling and tossing it in the air early in the season, for those who need it. Mainlly I just use that for release direction... didn't know it was used for flattening out the flight too.

Pam

BOWLING IS KEY!! When you break down bowling and you really focus on it the release of the discus is the same except it is parallel to the ground instead of perpindicular (sp). Watch how they bowl. Make sure the discus is coming off of the index fingure like pulling a triger. If the discus curves to one side or the other then they are breaking their wrist at time of release, this will translate to the throw. Once they can bowl in a straight line they are ready to practice the throw. For the first 2 weeks of practice I have my new kids do nothing but bowlling and stand throws. For my returners I have them bowl for like 30 min then throwing the rest of the time, just for a refresher. The release is the most important thing for the discus, you can have the best technique but if you don't have a good release you won't get the lift that is need to keep it in the air. Good Luck, I you let them see you get frustrated that will only make it worse. Make a game out of it a compotion even. That will work!!!

Well thanks, I never realized. This makes sense too, because one of the girls who is having the most difficulty with flight is the one who just couldn't get the bowling down at first either. She'd go 2 throws correct release and then one backward release. After a week and a half of mostly bowling and releases into the net, it finally just clicked and she hasn't had a backward release since. BUT... she can't get the discus flattened out. It comes out of her hand almost perpendicular to the ground, but it IS spinning the right direction. How does she do that?? LOL

Pam

olamac wrote:
I would take time from practice and have them throw straight up in the sky for height and bowl towards a fence. I have a girl who was in the same boat and she is just now getting her release down. Hang in there.
Well, I had the one gal spend almost an entire practice throwing up in the air (bowling) and bowling on the ground to a partner. She looked ok throwing it up, looked like it was staying straight/flat, but bowling... it just won't come. She literally brings her hand forward, with speed, and releases the disc canted about 45 degrees to the right. She had myself and 3 different seasoned throwers working with her on and off, and none of us could come up with anything to tell her to make her stop. She is beyond frustrated, and so am I. She threw 75' on Friday, and every flight was angled 90 degrees from the ground (perpendicular). Those throws were 90' with the correct flight. Here PR is 83', that came from a bad, no-height bullet we both thought was about 65'... BUT the flight was flat. I'm tempted to tell her to throw all form out the window and bend over in the front of the ring, just to try and get another flat flight, lol.

Pam

Look at how she is taking the discus back to start her stand throw. As she is bringing the disc around is her hand flat or is it at 90 degrees. If it is not flat that needs to be fixed first. Also give her the que of pulling a trigger on a gun for the release. Most kids if they haven't held a gun (Hopefully not) they still know how to pull a trigger from movies and video games. So that might help. As for bowling it should not be an agressive bowl, I have my kids gently bowl the discus. It kinda sounds like she is bowling the discus from a few feet off the ground, have her release the discus from a few inches from the ground. Also for the throw try telling her that she is slapping or spanking the discus and that she needs to turn her thumb down in order to level out the discus. This 90 degree throw can be prevented through practice and correction of the stand throw. Like I said earlier make sure she is coming through her stand throw with a level hand and that she is not spanking the throw. Don't give up!!!

Okay, well I almost mastered it! See the pic in the next post...

What do you think of the size of her base? It seems much too wide to me, preventing her from being able to push UP. And look at her hand. This is the typical hold and release for her, perpendicular to the ground, from the very rear of her swing all the way through to release.

Pam

[img size=150][/img]

First thing I noticed and the first thing I would fix is the position of her head. She's looking much too early. Have her relax a little and use a focal point. Throws must follow an order of events; feet, hips and then throw. Granted, it all happens so fast that it seems like it all happens at once, but looking towards your throw too early tends to allow your upper body to catch up or surpass your hips.

This was a stand throw, not a spin, but I"m sure the same principle applies. Thanks Coach, I hadn't thought of the head staying back... I rarely do in a stand throw, lol. But I'll definitely work on that with her.
What about the base though? You think it's ok? We usually have the opposite problem, base too small... but this gal! She's about 5'7, big muscles, very athletic. And she's a FRESHMAN!

Pam

Sorry that I haven't been on very much. From what I saw of the pictured the first thing that I would start with is her base. You must have a good solid base to work up from since that is where all of the power is generated. Make sure she is always on her toes with a bent back leg and slightly bent blocking leg. As she "PIVOTS" through to the front of the circle her blocking leg should straighten out pushing her backwards and at the same time the back foot should pivot up to where she is fully upright with her center of gravity right down between the legs. Next I would look at how she is holding the discus. In the picture it seems that she is already angling the discus up verses a little flatter. Try to tell her to push her thumb down on the discus as she is coming around. Also if she has her weight back over that back foot with her torso/chest over her back knee and head on a focal point out the back of the circle this will help get the plane of her arms up. The arms at this point should be almost level and should be perpendicular. As she rotates the left/front arm will go first, "not the shoulder which she will do", but only after the toe,knee,hip,shoulder,throwing arm come throw. Try teaching that cadance it really reinforces the movement. I had my kids do that until they got it down to being second nature so when it came down to practice and they wondered why they through bad they could tell me. Good luck, hope this helped. And yes the head should seem like it is attached to the throwing arm until the discus is released at which time the head should be up looking to the sky.